Pigfest Discussion

Submitted by Bill St. Clair on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:00:00 GMT

From smith2004:

"Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice." -- Will Durant

From Quotes of the Day:

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought." -- Lord Peter Wimsey

and:

"Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped." -- Groucho Marx

and:

"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses." -- Victor Hugo

Hop-On plans to sell a disposable cell phone with 60 minutes of pre-paid talk time, any time, anywhere in the Continental United States. You can buy more time, throw the phone away, or return it to them for return of your $5 deposit. No price or release date yet. [picks]

The High Road - Police raid high school; place kids on floor at gunpoint - long discussion of last week's pigfest in South Carolina. Two new email addresses for your letters: Chief of police, H. Becker: hbecker@cityofgoosecreek.com, Berkeley County School District Public Relations Officer, Pam Bailey: pambailey@berkeley.k12.sc.us. More contacts at the City of Goose Creek web page. [geekwitha.45]

Kuro5hin - The War On Drugs In The Classroom - more discussion on the SC Pigfest. [kuro5hin]

Unknown News - Armed police storm school in drugs raid - stories pictures and short commentary. [unknown]

Charley Reese at LewRockwell.com - Choose The Right Gun - the caliber should begin with the number "4".

One, you have to prepare yourself psychologically to take a human life. It's one thing that can't be undone. As my father said repeatedly when he was teaching me to shoot, "After you kill somebody, it's too late to be sorry." And so it is. In a life-and-death confrontation, you can't afford to conduct a debate on whether to pull the trigger or not. So, if you can't visualize yourself killing a human being and then living with it, you're better off buying a can of pepper spray.

...

And finally, a politically incorrect word of advice passed along to me years ago by a veteran cop: If you have to shoot somebody, make sure the judge will hear only your version of what happened. In other words, kill; otherwise, your assailant will probably sue you.

Jim Duensing at The Libertarian Enterprise - The Rake Tax - taxation is theft, but if you're gonna have a tax, Mr. Duensing says that the rake tax is the best one. [tle]

So the tax system I prefer is one where for example, the government leaves the first ten thousand dollars earned untouched. It then steals ten percent of the next fifty thousand dollars earned. After that, it takes nothing.

So, if you earned 10,000--you would pay zero taxes.

If you earned 30,000 you would pay $2,000.

If you earned 60,000 you would pay $5,000. And, you would not need to file any paperwork with the IRS.

If you earned 100,000 you would pay $5,000. And, you would not need to file any paperwork with the IRS.

Those who pay the full tax file no paperwork. Those who don't pay the full tax are still required to file papers proving how much they made and how much the government is legally entitled to steal.

...

Proposing any tax system which differs from the Infernal Revenue Code and its ability to regulate the lives of peaceful individuals is politically difficult because the pro-government extremist control freaks in Washington really like pulling those strings. But, if the liberty movement is going to get behind an organized system of government sponsored theft, it may as well be one which actually does its best to promote economic expansion and individual liberty.

Brad Edmonds at LewRockwell.com - Heck, Give Everybody a Gun! - why everyone who wants to should be armed. Even ex-cons. [scopeny]

It should be clear why the government and your local police don't want you to have guns: If you can defend yourself, you don't have as much need of the police, or indeed, the military. More ominously, you can defend your person, property, and family from the government itself: An armed and educated America would not only need to be less afraid of such government crimes as Ruby Ridge and Waco; that sort of America might clamor for the reduction of the size of government, or even the institution of a different one (a natural right our founders understood and held dear). That our government doesn't like the prospect of individual gun ownership is not unique to the US -- governments all over the world have gun-control laws. Naturally, such laws are no more effective elsewhere than they are in the US.

But for the time being, it remains possible for us to purchase and own guns. My recommendation: One pistol per family member, at least one short-barreled shotgun per family, and a deer rifle with a scope per family. Pistols offer mobile, concealed personal protection. Shotguns offer effective home defense. A pump shotgun is even better than a semi-automatic, since the sound of you chambering the first round is usually enough to send an intruder running for his life, so everybody wins -- he learns a lesson that might prevent him from entering the next house and you don't have nightmares about the mess his guts made in your house. The high-powered rifle, for its part, provides a threat even the government must take seriously. Few flak jackets do a very effective job of stopping a heavy, pointed bullet traveling at 2800 feet per second (the most powerful pistols manage at best 1500 fps with a lighter bullet). Additionally, you can be a threat from hundreds of yards with a deer rifle. A large city -- heck, even a neighborhood -- full of people owning such weapons would be a formidable problem for the ATF.

...

Of course, our political left wing warns us ad infinitum that our society would deteriorate into daily shootouts if everybody walked around carrying a gun. Not so. Think about the current situation: We are allowed to drive cars and to carry baseball bats. You can kill lots of people with either. Nobody ever does it. The 99% of us who aren't criminal kooks simply don't go around hurting other people. Think about all the people you work with, see at the grocery store, meet at church and social occasions: How many of those people would you fear? Some of the stronger ones among them already are able to kill you with their fists. How often do they do that?

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October 2003

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Quotes

Government doesn't work. Never did. Never will. Can't. But there are lots of good people. Love them.

-- Bill St. Clair

The Atlanta Declaration

Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

-- L. Neil Smith

Reread that pesky first clause of the Second Amendment. It doesn't say what any of us thought it said. What it says is that infringing the right of the people to keep and bear arms is treason. What else do you call an act that endangers "the security of a free state"? And if it's treason, then it's punishable by death. I suggest due process, speedy trials, and public hangings.

-- L. Neil Smith

A Penalty Clause for the Bill of Rights

Any official, appointed or elected, at any level of government, who attempts, through legislative act or other means, to nullify, evade, or avoid the provisions of the first ten amendments to this Constitution, or of the Thirteenth Amendment, shall be summarily removed from office, and, upon conviction, deprived of all pay and benefits including pension, and sentenced to imprisonment for life.

-- L. Neil Smith

Based on 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, and some of its own empirical work, the panel couldn't identify a single gun control regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents.

-- John Lott, commenting on the National Academy of Sciences report on gun control laws.

Who is a libertarian?

Zero Aggression Principle ("Zap")

"A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, or to advocate or delegate its initiation. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim."

-- L. Neil Smith

(Formerly called the "Non-Aggression Principle", or "NAP")

Why Did It Have to be... Guns?

Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude -- toward your ownership and use of weapons -- conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

-- L. Neil Smith

Concise

"Tell me," I was once asked, "What do you think about gun control? Give me the short answer." To which I replied, "If you try to take our firearms we will kill you."

-- Mike Vanderboegh

Also from The Atlanta Declaration:

... like going to the bathroom, breathing, eating, sleeping, or making love, it turns out that self-defense is a bodily function one cannot safely or effectively delegate to a second party.

-- L. Neil Smith

This does not mean that "Marijuana should be available by prescription." It means that morphine sulfate should be available in five pound bags at the supermarket for a couple of bucks, like sugar... but probably in a different aisle, to avoid confusion.

-- Vin Suprynowicz

If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law.

-- Edward Abbey

The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war.

-- Bill St. Clair