ATF Regulations

Submitted by Bill St. Clair on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:33:21 GMT  <== RKBA ==> 

I'm investigating the legality of modifying AK-47 magazines to fit my Saiga. I have been informed that putting a high-capacity magazine on an imported firearm requires that it have enough magic U.S. parts to be legally domestically manufactured. I have been unable to find anything about this, in Title 18 Chapter 44 of the U.S. Code, or in 27 CFR. The relevant parts of 27 CFR appear, from the ATF's web site, to be 447, 478, and 479. But reading these from the 27 CFR pages is difficult, since each section has a separate web page. So I pasted them together, with one file for each part, at billstclair.com/atf. Hopefully this will help me and others in future research. There's a link to this page on my links page, as a "*" next to the "ATF Regulations" link in the "Legal" column of the RKBA section.

The modified magazine might also be illegal under New York state "law", which still includes an "assault weapon" ban. I can't find anything about that, either, in the section of New York's code about firearms "crimes".

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Comments (17):

Sorry if I caused a panic

Submitted by Justin Buist on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:13:45 GMT

Sorry if I caused a panic earlier. Like I said, I'm 98% sure that it's illegal. I'm back home from work now and I'll set to digging up references points for you.

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I found a relevant thread at

Submitted by Bill St. Clair on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:19:45 GMT

I found a relevant thread at The High Road. Saul linked to a 1998 ATF report that changed the interpretation of the "sporting purposes" test, created by the 1968 Gun Control Act (GCA), to disallow import of rifles that could use "Large Capacity Military Magazines" (LCMM). Apparently this means that a legally imported rifle may not be modified to use a more-than-10-round magazine unless it is changed to contain at least ten domestically manufactured parts. I posted the following:

I have read the 1998 study linked in saul's post above. It makes it pretty clear that semi-automatic rifles that accept large capacity military magazines (LCMM) have been determined to not pass the "sporting use" test. Hence they are not importable.

Does anybody know of an update to this determination since the "assault weapon" ban expired? The existence of the ban was one of the major reasons for the study's interpretation change.

Where can I read about the requirement that a U.S. assembled rifle made from foreign manufactured parts must contain at least ten U.S. manufactured parts? And where has the ATF stated that modifying a legally imported rifle such that it would no longer be legal to import is criminal? I've spent quite a bit of time at their web site and was unable to find anything.

Note that JoCoEmprise.com sells, for $35, 30-round Saiga magazines that were "re-engineered from AK mags and test fired 3 times (rapid fire)." I suppose there's nothing illegal about the magazines, since they're just legal AK mags with the latch tab filed down and the feed ramp slot filled. Does owning one become felonious only when it's attached to a Saiga? Why does it matter to the ATF whether Saiga manufactures 30-round magazine with "a few grams of material added to the front of the mag and shaved from the back" or JoCoEmprise or I do it ourselves to a legal AK mag? Or will the existence of 30-round Saiga factory mags cause them to reevaluate the legality of importing the Saiga at all?

Cross Connect Corporation, has a section on Converting a Saiga to Pistol Grip Configuration, which includes adding a feed ramp to make a standard AK magazine feed properly. The step 2 page says:

If you have questions about the legality of this conversion, now is the time to stop. You can get all of your questions answered at the BATF website. It is my belief that the conversion performed on these pages conforms to the letter and the spirit of the law.

He likely considers his conversion legal due to the following ten U.S. manufactured "parts" (which would make the two screws he calls "optional" definitely NOT optional):

First Son Enterprises simulated Krinkov buttstock from RPB Industries (RPB P/N AKKRST-E1).
First Son Enterprises fire control group, consisting of (a) hammer, (b) trigger, and (c) disconnector (RPB P/N AK15).
TAPCO M249 SAW style pistol grip (RPB P/N FSE014)
AK pistol grip nut and screw (RPB P/N RPB1022).
Bullet guide.
Two 6-32 or 8-32 x 1/4 pan head screws (optional).

Absurd!

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OK. Here goes. USC 18,

Submitted by Justin Buist on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:46:45 GMT

OK. Here goes.

USC 18, 922(r) states that:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter...

Then then give some exceptions that aren't relevant here, and USC 18, 925(d)3) doesn't help any with this one either except to state that the arm must fit the "sporting puposes" clause.

It all boils down to "sporting purposes" which is an ATF/Executive decision, not a legislative one. Saiga's get in with US parts because you cannot (legally) put anything more than a 10 round magazine on them -- and that's the reason why you have to modify an AK mag to make it work. You -can- buy 30 round Saiga mags but you have to do it from the UK or the USSR. EAA, the former importer of Saiga, wouldn't do it because they were afraid some of their customers might slap a 30 round magazine into a gun that didn't have the proper US part count.

If you look at guns like the WASR-10, SAR's, etc you'll see that they're all manufactured by Century Arms International. To us they are Romanian guns, because that's where the receivers and barrels were made, but to the ATF and Customs they're US guns because enough US parts are put into them before assembly here stateside. That's why you can legally put 30 round mags into them.

The reason the WASR-10 is called that is because it's originally made to hold only a 10 round single stack magazine. When it hits the borders CAI reams out the magazine hole and sets it up to take 30 rounders, inserting US parts to make it legal. Just a little history/trivia for you.

It's hard to pin down why this is the case because it's all in ATF letters, not in US Code.

Unfortunately the only way for you to know FOR SURE is to write the ATF and ask them to clarify whether or not such a magazine could be inserted into an imported rifle. I know what the answer to that will be, and I'm still trying to dig up a reference to a previous letter.

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Still digging, Bill, but the

Submitted by Justin Buist on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:53:56 GMT

Still digging, Bill, but the AWB and the import regulations are very much disconnected. A lot of the import stuff was from 1989 based on Executive Order from Bush #41.

I do believe the Russians have even tighter controls thanks to the Clinton administration but I have long forgotten the specifics of that, however, that is mostly because they don't really make much difference to us citizens once the arms land on our shores.

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He shoots, he scores! I

Submitted by Justin Buist on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:02:56 GMT

He shoots, he scores!

I found a guy on the Saiga-12 forum that asked the same question to the ATF about the 7.62x39mm variant. They shot him down. He's got scans of the return letter.

Part 1

Part 2

Bill, I actually, honestly, wish I was making this up when I alerted you to it. I really do. I wish it was an urban legend, but it isn't.

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The letter writer was

Submitted by on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:47:19 GMT

The letter writer was proposing modifying a rifle to accept stock mags. I'm proposing modifying a magazine to work with the stock rifle. I agree with you though, that the ATF will likely consider this illegal as well. I guess inserting the magazine into the rifle's magazine well is considered "assembly of an imported semiautomatic rifle or shotgun with more than 10 of the listed imported parts." Bizarre!

It appears that this regulation IS written down. It's 27 CFR 478.39 (click on one of the 478.39 links (text or PDF) on that page or search for .39 in my copy:

Sec. 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.

...

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

But my rifle would still be "readily adaptable to sporting purposes." Just plug in the stock 10-round magazine, and it's back to stock. Somehow I doubt the ATF would look at it that way, though the only way to find out is to write them. Sigh...

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The disturbing thing here,

Submitted by Justin Buist on Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:03:52 GMT

The disturbing thing here, Bill, is that you and I have run around this issue for a total of about 6-8 man hours.

That's a lot of time for two guys of resepectable intelligence to spend trying to figure out if some JB Weld and an $8 AK-47 magazine are going to turn us into a felon.

That isn't right.

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I agree, in spades

Submitted by on Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:04:31 GMT

I agree, in spades. It's a $15 AK-47 magazine in New York. They still have to be pre-ban here. 'fraid I don't know any curses strong enough...

Thanks for your help.

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SAIGA MAGS

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:10:51 GMT

If you go to FFL News Letter dated Feb. 2005 and go to page 6, second paragraph up from the bottom left it states: "Specifically, there is no longer a Federal Prohibition on the manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assualt weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices."
So instead of confusing people who own Saiga rifles why don't you remove this incorrect and ill informed blog.

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But there IS still a

Submitted by on Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:55:28 GMT

But there IS still a prohibition on importing non "sporting" rifles and shotguns. That ban was part of the 1968 Gun Control Act, which has never been rescinded. Yes, the 1994 "assault weapon" ban expired in September of 2004, so it is now legal to manufacture formerly banned "assault weapons" from primarily domestic components, but the limit of ten foreign components from the magic list is still in place.

As I said above, I don't know if the BATFE will consider it a crime to add a large capacity military magazine (LCMM) to an imported semi-automatic rifle, but until I see an official letter from them saying it's OK, I'm going to assume that they will consider it to be illegal.

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SAIGA HI CAP MAGS

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:22:29 GMT

If you read the BATF regulations it clearly states that you may own and use high capacity magazines on any currently American made or legally imported or legally US component compliant semi automatic rifle or pistol,(capacity) depending where you live. You are even allowed to use high capacity mags in preban semiauto rifles and hand guns because they are now legal to own. When you hunt it must have a 3-5 round mag depending again in which state you live.
The only gray area is for shotguns because they are considered an explosive devise.

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That's good to hear. Do you

Submitted by Bill St. Clair on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 01:10:11 GMT

That's good to hear. Do you have a link to the relevant regulations, or at least a reference? There are lots of ATF regulations. Finding a particular one is rather difficult.

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SAIGA MAGS

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:10:41 GMT

Go to ATF ONLINE. Start reading from (03) on page 189 through and including (07) on page 190.
You must stay within the frame work of what you are researching. New regulations are being added all the time due to changes in the laws.
Therefore new regulations are there own seperate entity and must not be conveluted with the old unless they lead you to and existing regulation. Thats why I want you to read (07) so you get a taste of the referal which unless you are a importer does not apply to our subject.
I hope this helps anyone reading this subject.

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I think you're referring to

Submitted by on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:28:15 GMT

I think you're referring to http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/p53004.pdf . The important section, on page 190, is:

(O8) Does the expiration of the
SAW ban change laws regarding
assembly of nonsporting shotguns
and semiautomatic rifles from imported
parts?

No. The provisions of section 922(r)
of the GCA and the regulations in 27
CFR 478.39 regarding assembly of
non-sporting shotguns and semiautomatic
rifles from imported parts still
apply.

Does the ATF consider adding a high capacity magazine to a Saiga to be "assembly of non-sporting shotguns and semiautomatic rifles"? My common sense answer to that question is, "Certainly not!" But since when does common sense have anything to do with the ATF?

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SAIGA MAGS

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:44:48 GMT

The BATF does not consider the insertion of a Hi Capacity mag into a rifle after 2004 breaking the law. Furthermore it does not consitute the assembly of a firearm, you are not making a firearm. It has nothing to do with making a firearm!
A magazine is just that, a magazine. It is not required for a rifle to shoot a bullet.

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Re: Saiga Mags

Submitted by on Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:05:13 GMT

Does that mean that if I purchase a 30-round AK mag, modify it to fit my Saiga, and post pictures on my web site of the process and of the rifle with the modified magazine inserted, and then the ATF arrests me for it, you'll pay my legal expenses, and support my family should I be imprisoned? If so, I'll need a notarized contract to that effect.

Right now you're just an anonymous poster on an internet board. Certainly not worth betting my liberty on.

One thing that makes me wary is that if you look up to the excerpt from the regulation I posted, you see the following in the magic part list:

(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

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SAIGA MAGS

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 05 May 2006 22:14:57 GMT

If that was the intent of the law than count your parts 3 right. you are way under the 10.

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